Brunner review by Austin

BRUNNER Forum Forums Products CLSE-Yoke Brunner review by Austin

This topic contains 35 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  johnfee 1 week, 4 days ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 36 total)
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  • #1460

    blaser
    Participant

    Hi,

    A big disappointment and lack of credibility in the information provided in this video WRT the Brunner yoke! Sorry guys, but this is the most uneducated and superficial review that has been done on a Brunner device. BTW, the software is extremely versatile and has obviously not been exploited enough in this review… Not to mention that this is the weakest entry level Yoke that they offer… Sad!

    When you do not know that the elevator pulling force is completely configurable as well as the motor vibration frequency and amplitude… it is not even worth continuing watching the video.

    #1461

    blaser
    Participant

    I think the point of the Brunner piece of hardware has completely been missed! This is not simply a yoke… It is not plug and play! You have to spend time tweaking and tweaking its response in accordance to every aircraft! This is the beauty of it! Flying a jet is not like flying a GA. Nor trimming a 737 is like trimming a GA. The software that comes with it is the brain that makes it act and react according to its settings.

    I have been spending months learning how each aircraft control column reacts through different flight stages in real life to simulate it in the simulator… It is not something you take out of the box and say it is way over damped! There is a free manual for the software …. Come on!

    #1465

    aurel42
    Participant

    Considering that Austin used X-Plane’s default C172 together with Stefan Brunner’s C172 profile (how much more authoritative can it get?), I feel Austin raises valid points. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect this combination to work perfectly out of the box and show off what the device can do.

    blaser, if you have a C172 profile for the CLS-E NG (which, according to the video, is the device that Brunner provided to Laminar to test, and also the device that non-commercial users are most likely to purchase) that addresses the issues raised by Austin, please let me know where to find it.

    I have spent hours in the profile manager and still I have no idea how to fix the stuff Austin complained about, like the motor vibration simulation which should not be based solely on the engine rpm, but also on what the propeller is doing.

    Also, I have no real-world experience with most of the aircraft I fly using the yoke, so when I set up a new profile for an aircraft, I’m just winging it and using settings that I believe might not be totally unrealistic. That doesn’t mean they’re anywhere close to how the aircraft actually feels. Which is, of course, why I don’t like to share my profiles in the Profile Cloud (unless Brunner support forces me to).

    I would love to be able to download “real-world pilot certified” or “real-world pilot approved” profiles for the aircraft I’m using. But so far, I haven’t seen any.

    Austin certainly has more hours in a C172 than I do, and I agree with his assessment that the yoke’s feel is “synthetic”. Until now, I assumed the feel was limited by the capabilities of the device, not of the software or profile. (Prove me wrong by pointing me to your shared profile.)

    I can just hope that Brunner will actually take Austin up to his offer to help them improve the software. Maybe he can even create new datarefs representing the forces an aircraft (as opposed to the pilot) applies to the yoke in future versions of X-Plane – after all, that’s how force-feedback racing wheels work and some racing sims do wonders when it comes to making a force-feedback wheel feel close to the real thing.

    #1466

    aurel42
    Participant

    By the way:

    You have to spend time tweaking and tweaking its response in accordance to every aircraft! This is the beauty of it!

    I have been spending months learning how each aircraft control column reacts through different flight stages in real life to simulate it in the simulator

    In my ears, that translates to: “If you enjoy tweaking and spending time in configuration software more than you enjoy flying, and if you have real-world access to all the aircraft you want to fly in a sim and you own the appropriate license(s), only then this product is for you.”

    I’m a nerd. I love setting up stuff. But I lack the real-world experience with the aircraft I enjoy flying in the sim.
    So I guess you’re implying I should’ve bought a Yoko instead.

    #1467

    blaser
    Participant

    Maybe, but the reward is worth the spent time!

    #1469

    sbrunner
    Keymaster

    Hi all

    This review makes no sense
    It’s like comparing bicycles against a motorbike
    the only thing Austin is right, that some improvement on the Software side could be done but this is an ongoing process…

    Regards
    Stefan Brunner

    #1470

    blaser
    Participant

    Superlike Sbrunner! You said what I wasn’t able to express!

    #1471

    blaser
    Participant

    Stefan,

    Would you pls contact Austin to enhance the application of Engine vibration through the datarefs he suggests?

    #1472

    aurel42
    Participant

    Excellent analogy. Very good.

    Please allow me as a beginner motorcycle rider to explain why I appreciate it so much:

    Everybody can afford a bicycle. Everybody can ride a bicycle, it’s so easy, a five year old can do it. You can use almost all types of roads (not only two or three), and you can take the shortcut through the park. And when the bicycle breaks, Daddy can fix it.

    To ride an expensive motorcycle, you need to be able to afford it, you have to be a certain age, and you need to spend months of training to acquire a license [the barriers to entry are much higher].

    You need to rely on the manufacturer to attach the exhaust correctly to the engine, to set up the ignition timing correctly, and to install the correct ECU firmware, or you will not only be slower than the five year old kid on his/her bicycle, no, you will not move at all while you’re spending a lot of time trying to get the problem fixed by the manufacturer since you can’t really fix it yourself.

    Of course there will be a veteran Hells Angels member and garage owner explaining to you that writing or modifying ECU firmware is easy, you “just” need a software engineering degree and permanent access to a rolling road. (He will rave about the speed and handling of his bike with modified firmware, but of course he will not share it.)

    And if the street lights start flickering and car radios start crackling every time you drive by on your shiny motorbike, and you ask the manufacturer what to do, they will just tell you that they can’t reproduce the issue in their testing garage and that you should only drive in areas where the street lights have better shielding and cars don’t have radios.

    (That last paragraph is an inside joke for Brunner support.)

    #1474

    crugno99
    Participant

    Hi all

    This review makes no sense
    It’s like comparing bicycles against a motorbike
    the only thing Austin is right, that some improvement on the Software side could be done but this is an ongoing process…

    Regards
    Stefan Brunner

    I completely agree with you Stefan, don’t listen to them and keep up the good work!

    #1478

    franciscoblas
    Participant

    Regarding the video at 44:50, he presses the trim and the trim reacts quite fast. My trim does not react this quickly. In fact, it is terribly slow. Is it because he is using X-Plane and I am using Prepar3d?

    How do I get my trim to react the same way?

    fly safe

    francisco

    #1479

    blaser
    Participant

    The trim speed can be adjusted at will in the CLS2SIM software

    #1480

    franciscoblas
    Participant

    Hi Blaser,

    I will give this a try, thank you for your help.

    fly safe

    francisco

    #1481

    blaser
    Participant

    Check trim tab and adjust velocity from 1 to 100

    #1497

    gauchofree
    Participant

    Following the last videos of Michael Brown’s Youtube channel, the only conclusion I get is that A Meyer only has a main goal: to sell as many honeycomb yokes as possible.

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