Right (or left) full ailerons having wind components

BRUNNER Forum Forums Products CLSE-Yoke Right (or left) full ailerons having wind components

This topic contains 15 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  adipinto 9 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #1037

    adipinto
    Participant

    Hi Team,
    I’d like to report an issue with the ailerons position experienced soon after landing flights with some wind component. Basically releasing the yoke it turns fully on right or left; If I move it in the center position it automatically returns to right (or left). I can notice this also while flying but it is less evident because I’m busy keeping the plane aligned. If it can be useful, I’ve noticed that leaving the simulator opened in that situation, opening “LCS2Sim -> Profile manager” and moving slightly the yoke it fixes the weird behavior and the yoke returns acting as expected (keeping the position where I move it). I’m going to attach a screenshot about the situation after clicking on “Profile manager”.

    Now some technical detail about my setup. I’m flying the default Cessna 172SP in X-Plane 11.30. I’ve created a new profile using “Add -> From Template -> Cessna 172P” but the issue is present also using the profile “Cessna 172 SP – Stefan Brunner” from the Profile Cloud. I’m using a CLS-E yoke firmware v360 with CLS2SIM v4.14.

    Please let me know if I’m using some wrong setting, if you are able to reproduce it or if I can provide you further log/test/info.

    Thanks,
    Alessandro

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    #1039

    medtner
    Participant

    I have had this issue too, not always, but most of the time… Have no idea what causes it.

    #1040

    adipinto
    Participant

    Not always because it seems to be strictly related with the wind component. I’ve just finished another test modifying the meteorological condition with a severe storm but with no wind at all. The result was that after landing the yoke was perfectly centered and the issues did not happen.

    Same storm but with 7 kt of wind and after the flight the yoke was turned on the right (but still movable by hands applying a bit of force).

    My idea is that when you compensate turbulence or crosswind forces during the flight trying to keep the yoke centered, CLS2SIM software (or something) un-calibrate or stores the center position wrongly. That was just a non-technical feeling about the issue.

    I can’t wait to hear what the team think about it.

    #1041

    medtner
    Participant

    I found in a couple of occations that this turning force would disappear with turning the “power” in the yoke off and on again. Either that or reconnecting to the sim. I don’t remember, but it seems like an easy fix is possible.

    It seems like the wind has something to do with it, yes.

    #1042

    Diego Bürgin
    Keymaster

    Hello everyone

    The yoke movement indeed originates from wind. Specifically from the turbulence feature.
    If wind strength rises, it will over saturate and the yoke will try to move to the end of the roll axis.

    It is possible to minimize that behavior by lowering the min/max forces, sensitivity or the ramp setting of the turbulence feature,
    but you can’t make it disappear completely without completely removing wind forces from the yoke.
    Strong winds/turbulence will always over saturate the yoke, you can only hold it strongly to avoid it turning to either axis end.

    Regards
    Diego

    #1043

    adipinto
    Participant

    Hi Diego,
    thank you for your response.
    Actually, the wind is not that strong to move the yoke until the roll axis end. It can be easily kept at the center holding the yoke strongly. I think that the yoke shaking is normal during wind condition, the real problem is that the yoke takes a wrong “center” position when the wind ends (eg., after the landing). The yoke looks like to set its center position to a wrong position permanently.

    Actually I expect that the yoke acts like in a real plane, giving the wind feedback when needed but not trying to take a permanent wrong position because of that; I would not be happy decreasing or even disabling a great feature I’ve paid for.

    Just to be clearer, I’m going to attach you a picture showing the yoke position after a flight with about 4kt of wind; the plane landed, moved to the park and turned off. You can see that the center position after the flight is extremely wrong. At the start of the flight it was centered. The presence of wind un-calibrated someway the yoke.

    Maybe I didn’t get your answer but me, and I think other users experiencing this problem, expect a software fix for that.

    Please let me know what you think.

    Thanks for your support,
    Alessandro

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    #1045

    Diego Bürgin
    Keymaster

    Hi Alessandro

    Thanks for clarifying. The image helped!
    Question, do you need much force to change roll position if that happens?

    I am searching for this bug, however I only managed to reproduce something similar with motor vibrations.
    From the description this seems to be something different.

    In the meantime, if this happens again, please pause X-Plane and take the following steps.

    In the CLS2Sim main window, double click on the Active Profile label (See attached CLS2Sim_Debug_Window.png)
    In the now visible Debug window, scroll down until you see the section marked in the second attached image. Take another screenshot.
    Take a screenshot of the CLS2Sim, profile manager. The selected tab is unimportant, only the upper part of the profile manager is needed.

    PS: If you do the profile manager first, close the profile manager with a Click to the Cancel button.
    Don’t press OK or Apply, or you may overwrite the fault state.

    In the meantime I’ll try to reproduce the exact behavior.

    Regards
    Diego

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    #1048

    adipinto
    Participant

    Hi Diego,
    thank you very much for your support! The trick with the debug window is pretty cool actually 🙂

    When the yoke is “un-calibrated” I do not need so much force to pull it to the center position. It has a bit of resistance but you can move it with a finger. When you leave it free, it returns back to the wrong position automatically.

    I’ve attached the requested screenshot taken after landing. Please note that this time the yoke was full end to the left after the flight. Just as additional info, I attached the weather used during the flight, I remained below 2000ft.

    Just to let you know, I noticed that soon after I open the profile window in CLS2Sim (clicking on “Profile manager”), the force on the yoke disappears. If you move the yoke, it remains in the position where you leave it, not returning back to the wrong position. However, it does not return to the center position either; It just remains where it is without opposing any force.

    Please let me know if you need more info or screenshot. Glad to help fixing this issue.

    Talk soon,
    Alessandro

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    #1052

    adipinto
    Participant

    In the meantime I’ve taken similar screenshots pausing X-Plane during the flight, you can find them attached at this message.

    The weird thing this time is that when I opened “Profile manager” the yoke automatically moved to the center. Before opening the CLS2Sim with X-Plane paused, the yoke was like the cockpit image I sent you yesterday but on the left.

    Hoping that could be helpful,
    Alessandro

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    #1056

    adipinto
    Participant

    Hello Diego,
    are you still investigating on the reported issue? Any news?

    Thanks,
    Alessandro

    #1057

    sbrunner
    Keymaster

    Hi Alessandro

    This is a normal behavior with low or no speed…

    What you can do to avoid this is following
    Set the “Minimum Scale factor” under Tab Axis Force Settings from 20 to 40

    Regards

    Stefan

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    #1060

    adipinto
    Participant

    Hi Stefan,
    I’ve followed your suggestion but I got the same wrong behavior. My question is, why before the flight the yoke is centered and after landing a flight with wind the yoke has a force pushing it on the left (or right)? Why in flights without wind, after the landing the yoke is centered as expected?

    Honestly, I do not think it is an expected behavior. If you have a specific profile to avoid this behavior I’ll be glad to try it.

    Hoping to have a workaround from you.

    Thanks for the support,
    Alessandro

    #1107

    adipinto
    Participant

    Hello Team,
    unfortunately I have not received any reply from you yet.

    I’d like to know what you think about my questions or if you are working to find a solution.

    Thank you in advance,
    Alessandro

    #1108

    sbrunner
    Keymaster

    Hi Alessandro

    Try to reduce the %Force Max Settings under Turbulences

    Regards

    Stefan Brunner

    #1130

    adipinto
    Participant

    Hello Stefan,
    In the last couple of weeks I’ve tried different settings, also following your suggestion but it did not change the situation. It seems that just having a 1kt of wind will change the “center” position of the yoke permanently. The only option to avoid this issue is setting no wind in the simulator.

    As I said before, I noticed that if I open the profile window in CLS2Sim during the flight (clicking on “Profile manager”), the force on the yoke disappears; it’s like if doing that, the yoke is calibrated again to the right center position.

    Maybe this details could help you investigating the issue. Also, this detail could be the indicator that the issue is not related with the configuration but instead with some kind of unexpected behaviour of the software.

    Please let me know what you think.
    I remain available to provide you any kind of debug log.

    Thanks,
    Alessandro

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